Kaseya Community

Call for Kaseya to shift development focus...fix the core modules not add more modules

  • @phlight, I dont see KOB in your list, that program has given me more problems in 5 months than any other application in my business.  20+ tickets create, many of which are still open.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:59 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • This post is brilliant.  I would also like to add my name to the list of Kaseya users who are not at all happy with the direction product development has taken over the past 2 years or so.  I agree with those that state that it seems as though the marketing department is running the business.  

    We have been using Kaseya for over 3 years now and are disturbed by the seeming abandonment of core modules, KES & BUDR being key examples (there are others but I digress).  According to Kaseya's web site they are still part of the package.  In my own experience and from what I have seen in these forums these products have never performed satisfactorily.  Yet, instead of fixing or replacing them Kaseya's solution is to introduce parallel products that don't work very well either?  Am I supposed to get excited to pay for new features when the existing ones I have already paid for don't work?

    The new features are nice but why do they have to come at the expense of the existing features we have already purchased and continue to pay maintenance for?  What exactly are my maintenance fees paying for?

    All I would like to see is a little bit of focus.  Give us a workable Live Connect, Backup, Antivirus (pick one and make it work), Patch Management, etc.  Then come talk to me about adding modules.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 12:00 PM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • Add my vote to priortize fixing and enhancing the core functions instead of introducing new modules that cost more money. Been patiently waiting over two months for Kaseya to fix the new KLC VPN which hasn't worked for us since it was released.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 12:00 PM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • I agree with some of the sentiment here. In the last 18 months we have seen some improvements in support but there is still plenty of hype and little in way of delivery. The product roadmap seemed like a good idea of keeping everyone in the loop but as the modules were released you could see they were pushed out before they were ready. Many features missing and stability problems.

    My biggest concern of late has been the price changes. We work very hard to maintain a price book of services which our sales team build contracts from. Imagine my surprise where on several occasions after the point of ordering after customers had a singed off to find they had increase – in one case 100%. In one case with Replay4 the response was we no longer resell that. No communication at all on these changes.

    I don’t want my maintenance fee spent on developing half cut add-ons I have to pay extra for not a half backed PSA replacement. Give me the core tools that surpass all others. That’s is what I signed up for.

    Cheers,

    Jason



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 12:00 PM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • I also agree (frankly I can't imagine who wouldn't agree).

    The need to push out an ever growing list of poorly tested new modules with their own licenses is really damaging the product. They need to get rid of the 5.x elements, fix the long standing issues and requests with the core modules and then look at putting in to a place a proper development and testing philosophy stating the minimum level of testing and features that a module should have.

    We need to get beyond this stage of releasing a module with only half the features that any reasonable user wants, with the features that are there being buggy and poorly implemented, and then wanting to charge us an arm and a leg for it.

    Oh, also, can we call and agent an agent and not try to bill us twice for supporting iphones and android devices?

    Olly



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 12:01 PM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • Well I am glad I saw this thread as well.  I have used Kaseya for over 5 years now and have been fairly happy with it.  I could be a whole lot happier with it though.  When I first looked at Kaseya we evaluated several like products before making the purchase decision and I certainly would not want to go through that again.  It takes a lot of time to get a product like this rolled out and working properly.  That time is a huge part of the investment and a big part of why I do not want to even think about moving to a different product.  I have made the commitment to Kaseya and now I want Kaseya to make that commitment to me to fix the base product first and foremost.  Stability and consistency is a must.  Once the core products are stable and consistent then start working on add-ons and additional functionality.

    I know that Kaseya has made a big investment in improving the support and it has helped a bit.  There is however a huge improvement that they can make that will not cost them or us any money at all and that is "Communication".  One of my biggest complaints lately has been the lack of communication and knowing that they are working on my problems or when they will start working on my problems.  There have been many times that I have submitted tickets for things that are broken and of course you get the initial we are looking into this, and then the "we are escalating this" and then thats it for days.  Sometimes you will get a reply that they have fixed the problem only to find out that they have not fixed anything so you reply to the ticket letting them know that it is not fixed and it is days before getting any kind of reply.  I have even gone as far as submitting updates to a ticket that simply ask if anyone is doing anything on the ticket or even paying attention to the ticket and did not get a response for 2 weeks I think and then I only got a response because of calling my sales rep.  When we have things that are not working we understand that sometimes things take time to figure out, or maybe we are not the priority at the moment but a quick update once a day or two letting us know what is going on can go a long way towards keeping us happy and making us at least feel like you really do care about us, even if you cannot fix our problem right at the moment.  The other part of that is also the support people really need to read what we put in the tickets and think before responding.  I get so tired of the time wasting generic responses to do this or try this and if they had taken the time to read the ticket they would know that I had already tried those things.

    Kaseya "IS" a very useful product.  It does help with a lot of different things and it has a lot of great potential.  You guys really need to quit shooting yourselves in the foot with releasing these add-ons that are not fully tested and riddled with bugs.  I am just know finally getting the KDS module working properly and stable (hopefully) and I was one of the early adopters of it.  I have always supported Kaseya and recommend it to others and want to see it succeed and continue to grow and put out new features, but they need to be stable from the start.  Things need to be consistent across the board, for example in agent procedures you can do a run once for things, but in other places where you would think you would have that ability it was missing, one place was in the new Policy management module.

    My techs were really quite happy with Kaseya for the most part prior to the 6.2 upgrade, now since installing the 6.2 upgrade they have lost a lot of faith in Kaseya and have been very displeased with it because we had so many problems after the upgrade and it took over 2 months for some of those problems to get resolved.

    Ok, I am done with my rant.  I look forward to Kaseya getting things smoothed out and moving forward and making it the product that I know it can be Wink



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 12:01 PM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  •  

    We thank you for your posts on this topic. Management reviews all posts for input to its strategic and tactical thinking. Many good ideas have come from here in the past and I am sure there will be plenty of wonderful suggestions in the future.

    With respect to the overarching question of whether Kaseya should spend more time on the core vs. its add-on modules I will reiterate what I have said many times in the past. Our development teams are hard at work on all aspects of the code. We operate on the basis of development teams. There are development engineers, product managers, quality assurance personnel and product marketing in the day-to-day product development efforts. We have teams working on both the core and current modules as well as teams working on new code that has not seen the light of day. Its a balanced approach that yields a continual set of improvements to the software both existing code and future code.

    Many of you will have seen the recent announcement of Kaseya Network Monitor. This is the product we purchased from Intellipool and is being made available as a core component of Kaseya VSA to our Partners. No charge. This product is world-class as a standalone point solution. Monitoring companies would typically charge in the $30 - $50 per monitored object for this type of product. We are providing this to all MSP Partners without charge. This, without mentioning the “ton” of other new VSA functionality we released just this year alone.

    In addition, we are constantly working to improve the performance, scalability and effectiveness of the entire framework; core and add-ons. We are in the midst of a major upgrade to the core VSA which will be released in 2012. It sports so many new powerful features inside and out that it makes my head spin. So to think that we are not investing in the core is patently wrong. We have a wide cross section of customers with very diverse needs. For example, some partners must have functionality like Imaging and Deployment (KID) where as another partner may have no interest in it. This is part of our balancing act. The good news is when a partner who previously did not care about a module and now needs it to satisfy a new account’s service requirements its there and available. To be engaged in Managed Services and be part of the Kaseya partner network means you can be assured that, over time, you will have access to all the IT functionality required to provide a comprehensive managed services offering. While some functionality is, when initially released, lighter in content than our vision it should be very clear that we mean to make each and every function world-class. This is a commitment we make to our Manage Service Partners, but with limited resources it will take more not less time.

    In summary, my view is that working on the core VSA vs. add-on modules is not a zero sum game. We don’t remove resources from something released into the market to move to something else. When we move to add new tools we add new resources. So, it depends on your view as to what a managed service provider needs in the overall toolkit. Clearly, we see the need for a comprehensive toolbox and that drives our decision making.

    Outside of our specific development efforts it is worth mentioning our Test Pilot program as well.  This program is designed to be a direct channel of communication between our product teams and you, our customers as we put the final touches on code.  This program yields fantastic data that helps to validate product design, features and stability.  Already this program has helped improve products before release.  

    Hopefully, you will see we are balanced in our approach, do take your concerns to heart and will reverse course when that makes sense. Ultimately it is on our shoulders to understand what kind of framework for delivering IT will be required across the Managed Services business in the years ahead. Steve Jobs said it best, “You can't just ask customers what they want and then try to give that to them. By the time you get it built, they'll want something new.”

    Gerald Blackie
      

     



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 12:02 PM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • Hi Gerald. Wow such a long post, but no real information. Why is KAV 1.2 taking so long to get released? Why is KAV running such an old version of Kaspersky? Why does Live Connect on the Mac miss many of the features that windows has? Why is K2 so much slower than version 5? Why doesn't Kaseya work on the iPad? Why is there still no iPhone application (This was such a required feature my Company wrote our own!!! and no the service desk application doesn't count)? Why do you plan on charging extra for the iPhone/Android agent? There are so many issues with Kaseya 6.2 that it isn't funny.

    Your post basically just stated that you have no plans on improving the Kaseya development process! Really concerning.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 12:02 PM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • Once again and echoing the initial post, the foundation is in need of severe repairs. You guys just keep adding on more and more on top of a poor foundation, just adding to the instability of the product. Instead of 1 thing going wrong, it is compounded, resulting on fixing 1 thing and 3 other things going bad.

    You can't build a house on a bad foundation. You can't build a high rise on a bad foundation. Quite addin on and fix the foundation, which has been in need of repair since 2005. The VSA is suppose to be a time saver, but often results in wasted time because of constant troubleshooting the quirks in it.

    You are loosing user confidence in the product, hesitation from users on investing more into Kaseya products, and even loose users because of the never ending unreliability.

    Simply put, its would be a great product, if it works reliably. Enough with the FUTURE ADD-ONs, fix the foundation.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 12:02 PM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • @michaeldale - all of our work is about improving process and improving the product to continue to deliver a world class ITSM solution.  Most of your other concerns seem to be about add-on functionality and if you go back to the beginning of this thread the main concern was that the core features weren't getting enough attention.  Gerald explained how we allocate resources, and that we don't pull people off of the core to work on the add-ons and that we have a major core update coming next year that will include many updates to those core features including reporting, monitoring (tighter integration with intellipool) and remote control improvements just to name the few that I know of with certainty.   KAV 1.2 was released with server support with the latest server engine on 11.21.2011 and work is already underway to update the workstation engine to the latest business engine. ( See this post )  -  In terms of some of your other concerns about functionality, keep the ideas coming, you should see our wish list of features, however we don't have unlimited resources and that means some things don't get done as soon as we would all hope.

    @Shickey - The foundation is getting those "repairs" you refer to with the core udpate Gerald mentioned above.  Please apply for the Test Pilot program so that your feedback on those updates can be fed directly to the product team as we get closer to moving that update to release next year.  

    We have a wonderful base of customers like you who have helped us get where we are today and we are listening.   

    @everyone - This thread has been very good, but I don't want this to devolve into a heated rant.   Let's keep it constructive.  

     



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 12:03 PM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • Hey Gerald,

    Thank you for taking the time to join in with our discussion. Please review my post and you'll see that my focus in this posting is about improving communications between K and it's clients (us). I make a few points that focus around this topic, and in the end I do recognize that K is actually working in the direction we need. But the way k has been communicating it's roadmap for core and add-on has led to a lot of confusion. Yes K does give us a site where we can see what's on it, but the real confusion to many of us is whats going to be part of the core, and what's not. And lately we've been told initially things we wanted are going to cost extra, then suddenly they're now included with the core (though sometimes additional maint will be charged). The end result is really good(the core module is improving and getting better!),  but the road K took us on to get to this point was very confusing.

    Also, regarding the add on modules, I have to agree with many users that I do like to see all the new options that K is offering (he we can buy only what we need, and not what we don't). But if I'm going to pay extra for it, I'd like it to be more robust before I pay for it. Take KAV for example, I bought 1500 agents almost a year ago, but really cannot deploy them because, while it really isn't buggy (works fine for me), when I deploy it to my clients it will take down their networks when it updates (cannot tell it to use a local repository). So I am stuck with using KES until you guys have the release that will do this.

    Another example is KMDM. This product is not Mobile iron, but it sure is priced like it is (I do know K offered a buy in price, but my yearly price will be the same as what mobile iron charges). Another interesting tab out this price for kmdm (which is used to manage smart phones)  is is almost double my price I paid per K agent (which manages more intelligent devices called pcs, servers, and laptops). In the end, this is a confusing message.

    So my thoughts posted in this forum are about being confused by communications by K, and also wanting K to deliver add on modules that are more robust (and I will pay for it), as well as had a fair price on it (I have 5000 k agents, why am I being asked to not only pay double their cost for kmdm, but pay the same price as someone who may have only 100 agents?).

    Finally, this is one of only a few companies where the big dogs join in with open discussions with their clients. All, please appreciate this as pretty unique and show respect to K for having a company mentality that promotes this kind of openness. In all frankness, this is one of the major reasons K is #1 with us.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 12:03 PM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • I would agree with Brendan's comment about not losing the focus of the topic which is the core modules, which would include the following;

    • - Agent
    • - Agent Procedures
    • - Audit
    • - Info Center
    • - Monitoring
    • - Patch Management
    • - Remote Control
    • - System
    • - Ticketing

    I think that the following modules should also be included as core modules;

    • - Network Discovery
    • - Policy Management

    however if we could get some traction on the top 9 that would make most of us happy.

    The main complaint that I have had and that most of the other Kaseya customers  posts on the forums that I have seen are about the Kaseya interface and how it changes between modules and functions. The other two core modules that I believe should revamped are the "Info Center" and "Monitoring" modules.

    I think what we maybe need is to start listing the issues per module however I'm not sure that the forum is the best place to create the list as we would end up with a very long thread. Any suggestions on how we can start listing these core issues would be great.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 12:03 PM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • My concern is that you believe you have a team of developers who work on updating and fixing the core components and yet we, the end users, see nothing of that. Half of v6 still doesn't have the new interface promised when we were running v5. Most of the modules are still poorly integrated and suffer from poor development ideas and bugs.

    What we DO see is constant information about new modules and new pricing. Indeed you just countered this complaint by telling us of a new intellipool module being released which shows that you don't really understand or want to listen.

    People sign up for the test program, and they give their feedback, but this feedback never results in to fixes in the final modules, which seem to always be released with blatantly obvious features missing, bugs, and poor UI. There also doesn't appear to be anyone sitting down and thinking about how new modules will work individually, or with each other, before the devs start the coding. Someone must be doing some product research I'm sure. For example: Why can't I tell what the KES/KAV status is of a machine in KLC? Surely any new module should be integrated with KLC from the outset? Next example, why can't I set KAV requirements in policy manager so that any machine in a given dept gets KAV with x and y settings? Why can't I see the Policies applied to a machine from KLC? *EVERY* module should integrate with policy manager from the outset in order to make it useful.

    I love Kaseya and I do think, at it's very heart, it's a reliable product, but it's let down by the company that makes it and their marketing team and the inane desire to constantly provide more modules, at every increasing costs, in order to tempt new customers in but without providing any reason for existing clients to remain with Kaseya (other then the pricing plans that you have no choice to sign up for due to the stupid licensing arrangements - why can't I just buy what I need?)



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 12:04 PM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • @oliverm - I think you missed the whole intent of the Intellipool acquisition.  One of the core areas that customers and we ourselves had acknowledged needing an update was monitoring.  Rather than build/re-build our offering, we purchased a world class company and solution that is Intellipool.  Intellipool wasn't purchased just to sell another addon module.  Yes it stands very well on its own as an enterprise class monitoring solution, and we will sell it as such, but it allowed us an opportunity to take a great product and integrate it to make the core VSA stronger.  Which is why right now, MSPs can get KNM 4.1 at no charge.  Things don't happen overnight, but KNM 4.1 is part of us making good on improving the core, but its a process.  Next year you'll see that integration evolve and allow for different levels of choice for our customers in terms of monitoring.  

    The test program has most certainly yielded feedback and product changes, bug fixes, etc.  I don't have the specific data right now, but I can assure it the test pilot program is effective.  

    All of this is about evolving features and products.  Your feedback is great.  Integration will continue to be a focus for all work going forward.  That has been heard loud and clear over here.  

    Licensing falls off topic for this conversation, but the goal is to be more flexible as you've seen with our allowance for subscription and perpetual licensing for most modules/products.

    Thanks for contributing.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 12:04 PM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • @brendan

    Quick deviation from the topic:

    www.kaseya.com/.../downloads.aspx

    Lists KNM as 4.0.  Did I just download 4.0 or 4.1?



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 12:05 PM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .