Kaseya Community

BUDR 3.0 (and 2.0) still locks up SQL and Exchange servers.

  • We are having an issue among more than one customer where about once a week BUDR will cause a server to become unresponsive and not work at all. We usually have to reboot the system to get things workings again. It seems to always be on SQL database server and Exchange servers. I understand that VSS could be the problem, but WE DON'T USE THE VSS option. Further, the idea that we cant use VSS is pretty absurd but we are living with it.

    Why is that the normal Acronis product and BESR can all handle VSS just fine but BUDR always has issues?

    Also, we dont bother using verify either any more, because that almost always fails even though the job was a perfect success.

    It's pretty sad when your backup solution is usually your main source of customer downtime, and we still don't get to use VSS.

    I hope I am just doing something wrong here. Any one else have these issues? BUDR seems to hate database servers.

    Please help!

    Legacy Forum Name: BUDR 3.0 (and 2.0) still locks up SQL and Exchange servers.,
    Legacy Posted By Username: itss
  • Backing up 10+ Exchange, and 8+ SQL servers without this issue. Using the latest BUDR. Do not use VSS. Exchange servers are 2003 Std and 2007 Std. SQL servers are 2000 & 2005 Std. Wish I could help, but I'm not running into any issue. Question though, what AV product are you using on these hanging servers? Also, the servers we primarily backup are Dell.

    Legacy Forum Name: BU-DR,
    Legacy Posted By Username: boudj
  • All servers are Dell. We use Trend Micro Worry Free Business Standard for AV. I'm actually glad to hear your reply, it means that there is hope. However, I really don't like how we cannot use VSS. I hope others can chime in here with their experiences.

    Thanks.

    Legacy Forum Name: BU-DR,
    Legacy Posted By Username: itss
  • We're both using Dells, and yet you are experiencing what I am not. What is different? I do not use Trend Micro. Perhaps it is not liking something the backup is doing? Also, does the problem occur for Fulls only? Or are incrementals (or differentials) affected as well?

    I would like to use VSS too, but I still don't have high confidence in it (maybe the next version). However, I have done several Exchange & SQL server recoveries with no issues. Also, I hear that K has Acronis for Exchange and SQL on the roadmap, so this would greatly address this too.

    Legacy Forum Name: BU-DR,
    Legacy Posted By Username: boudj
  • I have been using BUDR with VSS with no issues at all, even in version 2.
    I have have 2 servers which do lock up with BUDR installed, one is a Term Server one is an old Win2k.

    But all the SBS/SQL/EXC boxes are all fine, particularily since BUDR3.
    We also have 2 desktops which lock up with BUDR, but no VSS there, appears to be a network issue...

    Have you tried running the BUDR install of acronis through the actual local software to see if you get any additional info through the logs?

    Legacy Forum Name: BU-DR,
    Legacy Posted By Username: philipj@itwest.biz
  • I am just throwing this out as something to look at.. I had a very similar problem this past December with three Dell PowerEdge 2900s and Storagecraft ShadowProtect. T

    he servers would hang regularly just after ShadowProtect started, sometimes.. I was about to pull what's left of my hair out.

    In the end an udate of the RAID drivers fixed the issue. I know Storagecraft ShadowProtect isn't Acronis but they sure do look and work a lot alike.

    Ray

    Legacy Forum Name: BU-DR,
    Legacy Posted By Username: akus1
  • We have BUDR 3.0 deployed to over 100 servers, and I would estimate at least 30% of those are SQL / Exchange servers. We have VSS enabled for all of them, and have only encountered one problem. It was SQL 2005 serve that would lock up every Monday morning. Server was powered on, but not responsive. We had to hard power cycle it each time. We disabled VSS and the problem went away.

    Other than that it's been pretty smooth sailing for BUDR 3.0 in regards to Exchange / SQL / VSS.

    Legacy Forum Name: BU-DR,
    Legacy Posted By Username: csousa@radicalsupport.com
  • csousa,

    Wow, that is really great to hear. I have been thinkign of switchign from Symantec Backup Exec System Recovery (BESR) to K BUDR. But with all the posts about lockups and VSS issues, I was really conerned, as we have no real issues with BESR.

    But hearng that you have 100+ servers running BUDR, with just one issue, makes me feel a lot better about considering the switch.

    With such a large install base, I woudl like to ask for a little more information about your practices...
    1) When/how often do you create a Full image for the servers? And when/how often do you create an Incremental images?
    2) Where do you store the images? internal drives? NAS appliance? etc.
    3) Do you replicate the images to anything - either onsite or offsite?

    We would probably be imaging 100+ servers, and 1,000+ PCs, and I am tryign to figure out the best way to handle this larger number of computers.

    Thanks very much.

    Lloyd

    Legacy Forum Name: BU-DR,
    Legacy Posted By Username: lwolf
  • Lwolf,

    1) Backup schedule is determined by the length of retention time purchased by the customer. If they want 4 weeks of retention time, we do a synthetic full every 14 days, and keep 3 backup sets. This takes more storage, but ensures we can go back 4 weeks. We always under promsie and over deliver. Incrementals are the same - it's an option that a customer can pay for. Most customers get 1 incremental a night, but others get incrementals every 1 hour.

    2) We store them on a few different devices. External USB drives are the most popular due to cost - but they end up causing more issues than they are worth. We actually contacted the same vendor who makes the Zenith NAS, and get our own white box NAS. It comes with a few drives in a RAID 5, a few GB of RAM, Gbps NIC, and Storage Server 2003. We install VMWare server, and can spin up VMs on it in the event of a local server failure. We've already had to do this for 2 customers, and it saved us and them HOURS / DAYS of restoration time. They are now customers for life.

    3). We replicate offiste to our datacenter with pretty good success. We had a few issues, but Kaseya support was (eventually) able to help us get all of them resolved. The dashboard makes it pretty easy to manage and keep up with any issues that do come up. We have also tested spinning up a customer server as a VM on our ESX cluster, and that worked well too. Really helps us provide a complete DR solution for our customers. We are replicating between customer sites in a few situations - and it works just like it does to our colocation facility.

    Getting all of this to work like this wasn't as easy as it should have been ... but now that it's up and working we love it. We're migrating 1 or 2 clients a week from our previous backup product (Vembu) and so far everyone likes Kaseya BUDR WAYYY better than Vembu or NovaStor that we've used in the past.

    Legacy Forum Name: BU-DR,
    Legacy Posted By Username: csousa@radicalsupport.com
  • Hi itss,



    We have BUDR running on over 100 servers as well. I see a lockups on approximately 20-25% of our servers. I am not happy about it, but the issue has gone years without being addressed. The generic reply about checking memory got old, so I stopped reporting the problem long ago. You will find complaints about BUDR lockups if you search this forum. Check out this post:



    http://community.kaseya.com/xsp/f/93/t/8519.aspx



    My opinion is that Acronis causes virtual memory (paged/non-paged) depletion on 32-bit servers. I have not encountered this problem on any of our 64-bit computers to date. This is just an observation....

    Legacy Forum Name: BU-DR,
    Legacy Posted By Username: daniel@l1n.com
  • FYI - For the heck of it, I turned on VSS for several servers we backup using BUDR. Within a few days, a few of these servers "hosed up" (we could never log in to them, or remote control them. we just saw a background color). Once I removed VSS I haven't had anymore issues with my servers.

    Legacy Forum Name: BU-DR,
    Legacy Posted By Username: boudj
  • csousa -> Thansk very much for the info.

    daniel and dougj -> wow, that is pretty scary results - server lockups after turning on VSS. Seems like Acronis/Kaseya and VSS really don't mix well. We probably have 20 servers running Symantec Backup Exec System Recovery (BESR) and never have any such issues. I am gettign more nervous about my thought of switching from Symantec BESR to Kaseya BUDR. The integration and monitoring may be better, but at least now I don't have to deal with introducing any server lockups.

    Lloyd

    Legacy Forum Name: BU-DR,
    Legacy Posted By Username: lwolf
  • I have considered switching to the Backup Exec solution as well. Lockups aside, I have been frustrated with the lack of basic functionality in BUDR. I still struggle to understand why a solution that has been around this long is unable to support multiple backup schedules and multiple backup devices/locations. I'll end my rant before it gets started.... Wink

    Legacy Forum Name: BU-DR,
    Legacy Posted By Username: daniel@l1n.com
  • Daniel,

    Last month, I submitted a Feature Request ticket ("BUDR -> Need more flexible BUDR scheduling, Feature Request", Ticket ID: 180679( asking for support for multiple backup schedules. I wanted to be able to do something like:
    - Full Backup, Sunday 7AM
    - Incremental Backup, Monday-Friday, 9AM,12PM,3PM,6PM or even just Incremental Backup, Monday-Friday, 9PM
    - nothing Saturday (to allow for time window for disk defrags)

    I was told "This item is on our list, and will be delivered with the next release of BUDR when running on the next release of the Kaseya VSA." When I pressed a little harder, I was told that the enhanced scheduling was in the 2009 VSA release, and did not need BUDR v4.0 (good to hear, as K2009 is coming befire BUDR 4).

    When I pressed harder for more info to see if it would support my exact schedule (outlined above), I was told "While I cannot guarantee future features functionality to perfect detail, yes the plan is to support both of those schedules that you asked about. "

    So, it looks like help *may* be on the way - for scheduling, but thats only one of my two biggest concerns. The other is that I am still very nervous and confused about the whole VSS lockup issue.

    Lloyd

    Legacy Forum Name: BU-DR,
    Legacy Posted By Username: lwolf
  • csousa@radicalsupport.com
    Lwolf,

    1) Backup schedule is determined by the length of retention time purchased by the customer. If they want 4 weeks of retention time, we do a synthetic full every 14 days, and keep 3 backup sets. This takes more storage, but ensures we can go back 4 weeks. We always under promsie and over deliver. Incrementals are the same - it's an option that a customer can pay for. Most customers get 1 incremental a night, but others get incrementals every 1 hour.

    2) We store them on a few different devices. External USB drives are the most popular due to cost - but they end up causing more issues than they are worth. We actually contacted the same vendor who makes the Zenith NAS, and get our own white box NAS. It comes with a few drives in a RAID 5, a few GB of RAM, Gbps NIC, and Storage Server 2003. We install VMWare server, and can spin up VMs on it in the event of a local server failure. We've already had to do this for 2 customers, and it saved us and them HOURS / DAYS of restoration time. They are now customers for life.

    3). We replicate offiste to our datacenter with pretty good success. We had a few issues, but Kaseya support was (eventually) able to help us get all of them resolved. The dashboard makes it pretty easy to manage and keep up with any issues that do come up. We have also tested spinning up a customer server as a VM on our ESX cluster, and that worked well too. Really helps us provide a complete DR solution for our customers. We are replicating between customer sites in a few situations - and it works just like it does to our colocation facility.

    Getting all of this to work like this wasn't as easy as it should have been ... but now that it's up and working we love it. We're migrating 1 or 2 clients a week from our previous backup product (Vembu) and so far everyone likes Kaseya BUDR WAYYY better than Vembu or NovaStor that we've used in the past.


    Would you mind letting me know who the Zenith NAS vendor is? We have been looking at this type of solution as well.

    Legacy Forum Name: BU-DR,
    Legacy Posted By Username: Coldfirex