Kaseya Community

Does Kaseya do standard basic monitoring well?

  • I've been working on a basic health monitor set I can quickly deploy on all PCs and servers, and it's occurred to me that this is a significant hole in what Kaseya provides. Here's why:

    There are about four basic performance metrics you need to monitor on most computers: amount of RAM, disk I/O, network I/O and CPU load. I said basic; there are obviously others.

    RAM: Kaseya doesn't have any decent memory usage monitoring tools, just a lot of fairly useless ones. As recendly discussed here, there is no single monitor within Kaseya that will tell me a given system doesn't have enough RAM; nearly every memory metric is tied to the total page space defined, not physical RAM, and none of the monitors relate to that. It would not be hard for Kaseya to provide an alert that says "this system is consistently using as much or more RAM than it has". It doesn't do that, and doesn't provide a decent way to do it yourself. There is no Kaseya monitor that can compare memory allocation to physical RAM; you have to do that manually. Further, there is only one simple and reliable metric that can monitor for the disk I/O that results from RAM over-commitment, the page write rate. That one is not part of any of the standard monitor sets, has terrible defaults, and no guidance for configuration.

    DISK: Kaseya also doesn't have a decent way to monitor for the most reliable indicator of excessive disk drive activity: the I/O queue length. Oh, it does have a way to monitor it, but if you try to use it, and just pick "C" drive, it probably won't work. You have to guess which combination of C and a half dozen other drive letters apply, and create a custom set for each particular system. NOT time-effective for mass management.

    NETWORK: Ever tried to monitor for excessive network load with Kaseya? You'll have to customize the monitor set for each individual PC to select the right NIC, and there's little help in doing that -- Kaseya provides no way to tell, in the setting dialog. And what it offers you may have little to do with what the system actually has. Then you will want to compare network utilization to that bandwidth available, preferably as a percentage. K has no monitor tool that will do that. Again, NOT time-effective for mass management.

    CPU: Kaseya does monitor CPU load without difficulty, but frankly, that's not usually of much value: while it can be useful with servers, it's just about useless for detecting PC performance issues. There may be the occasional PC that goes CPU bound for a significant amount of time, but with modern PCs, user problems are nearly always due to other issues.

    Summary: Not looking so good here, are we? Kaseya could do a LOT better job on the basics. IMNSHO, there should be a single monitor set that does this, out of the box, for every Windows-based server or PC, with no tweaking required.

    If I've missed something significant here, I know you folks will straighten me out right smartly. But please, do dig a little and verify. These issues have been discussed here separately before, with similar conclusions. My point is that there is a cumulative issue in Kaseya's approach to monitoring.

    By any chance, does K6 do a better job of this?

    /kenw

    Legacy Forum Name: Does Kaseya do standard basic monitoring well?,
    Legacy Posted By Username: Ken Wallewein
  • Ken Wallewein
    I've been working on a basic health monitor set I can quickly deploy on all PCs and servers, and it's occurred to me that this is a significant hole in what Kaseya provides.


    Kaseya is a great remote control and automation tool. Your best bet is to only monitor for items which you can fix automatically via scripting.

    Andrew

    Legacy Forum Name: Monitor Sets,
    Legacy Posted By Username: andrew.doull@computer-care.com.au
  • Have to agree with you on this Ken. With a lot of work you can get "something" going but it is not very automated (don't even get me started on SNMP).

    I don't know if this in K6 or not but on the 2009 road map Kaseya lists "Advanced Performance Monitoring" which would be a dream come true for me... Smile

    "Support for Nagios and Cacti performance collection scripts" would basically fix those problems you mentioned and "Graphing of trend over time: hourly, weekly,
    monthly, yearly" would fix a few other issues. I am hoping trend over time is datapoints in RRD as referenced in this post: http://conigliaro.org/2008/03/26/kaseya-monitoring-sucks/ and trending is least square or something so we can pull up a graph of CPU from the last year, note the spikes and see that the trend has gone up x amount and based on data from that year a server refresh would be needed in the next x months.

    I can't complain too much though as most other MSP software isn't in much better shape on the reporting end. Since they are at least looking at and potentially integrating some Cacti and Nagios features I have high hopes.

    Legacy Forum Name: Monitor Sets,
    Legacy Posted By Username: jeremyj
  • It really amazes me when people just 'dont get' kaseya.

    (as a side note: when are you over in london next Andrew?)

    My only quam with kaseya monitoring is that the views exposed dont allow you to get data directly from the monitor logs (that is really useful). But hey, nothing stops people jumping in and changing that....

    Legacy Forum Name: Monitor Sets,
    Legacy Posted By Username: sam.taylor
  • sam.taylor
    It really amazes me when people just 'dont get' kaseya.


    What is it that you think one of the above posters "doesn't get"? Kaseya stresses automation at every turn, and their website emphasizes rapid deployment, but every MSP who buys Kaseya must re-invent the wheel when it comes to monitoring. I can use free tools to gather event log data or WMI data. Kaseya is an expensive investment... It's not wrong to expect a little more out of the product.

    Legacy Forum Name: Monitor Sets,
    Legacy Posted By Username: arobar
  • sam.taylor
    It really amazes me when people just 'dont get' kaseya.
    ...
    My only quam with kaseya monitoring is that the views exposed dont allow you to get data directly from the monitor logs (that is really useful). But hey, nothing stops people jumping in and changing that....


    Not sure what it is you think people don't "get". Would you mind clarifying that?

    Knowing that K uses WMI explains a lot of what it does. That doesn't however, either explain or excuse that K _doesn't_ do. The deficiencies I listed would not be difficult for the developers to addess using information Kaseya already collects. The obstruction is not technical; they simply chose not to bother.

    I don't think I understand what you meant about the monitor logs, either. Are you talking about using third party software or such to pull data out of the Kaseya server's database?

    BTW, "quam" is spelled "qualm".

    /kenw

    Legacy Forum Name: Monitor Sets,
    Legacy Posted By Username: Ken Wallewein
  • sam.taylor
    It really amazes me when people just 'dont get' kaseya.

    (as a side note: when are you over in london next Andrew?)


    Not sure - I'm usually over once or twice a year. Will drop you a line on Facebook the next time we will be.

    Andrew

    Legacy Forum Name: Monitor Sets,
    Legacy Posted By Username: andrew.doull@computer-care.com.au
  • Ken Wallewein
    Not sure what it is you think people don't "get". Would you mind clarifying that?

    Knowing that K uses WMI explains a lot of what it does.


    Except it doesn't use WMI for monitoring.

    Andrew

    Legacy Forum Name: Monitor Sets,
    Legacy Posted By Username: andrew.doull@computer-care.com.au
  • Didnt intend to offend people, but obviously have - sorry. Kaseya is an interface for scripting on multiple computers on disseperate domains. Monitoring is a collection of useful tools with a web front end. The basic 'monitoring' that people do comes directly from Windows Performance Monitor. The real problem is that PerfMon doesnt have any counters for the issues you describe. Kaseya is attempting to be as generic and flexible as possible and this is what makes kaseya extremely powerful. Dont get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from, but if you understand how kaseya does what it does, you soon realise that it is extremely difficult to simply send a message saying 'you need more ram' or 'this machine needs better/faster/more disks'. Having a tool that simply takes over the analytics side of generic monitoring doesnt really work. EG - What if you have a SQL farm with a SAN backend, you want to monitor IOPS for your farm. How is kaseya expected to know which servers are connected to the SAN, which arrays/disk groups/raid types are in use and make appropriate suggestions. We use kaseya monitoring (for base performance) to assist us to judge hardware/software requirements, but do not expect it to complete the analytics as well. Kaseya is an extremely cheap product when you consider what it does. Following are a few simple example monitor sets that we use:

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" ?>
    <monitor_set_definition version="1.0">
    -<MonitorSet name="General Performance" description='General Performance'>
    -<Counters>
    <Counter name='Pages/Sec'  description='null' counterObject='Memory'  counter='Pages/sec'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='-1' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='100' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Current Disk Queue Length'  description='null' counterObject='PhysicalDisk'  counter='Current Disk Queue Length'  counterInstance='_Total'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='-1' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='100' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='% Processor Time'  description='null' counterObject='Processor'  counter='% Processor Time'  counterInstance='_Total'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='90' thresholdDuration='60' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    </Counters>
    -<Services>
    </Services>
    -<Processes>
    </Processes>
    </MonitorSet>
    </monitor_set_definition>
    
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" ?>
    <monitor_set_definition version="1.0">
    -<MonitorSet name="IOPS" description='IO's Per Second'>
    -<Counters>
    <Counter name='IOPS-Write'  description='Write OPS' counterObject='System'  counter='File Write Operations/sec'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='300' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='IOPS-Read'  description='Read OPS' counterObject='System'  counter='File Read Operations/sec'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='300' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Queue-Read'  description='Avg. Read Queue Length' counterObject='PhysicalDisk'  counter='Avg. Disk Read Queue Length'  counterInstance='_Total'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='800' thresholdDuration='30' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Queue-Write'  description='Avg. Write Queue Length' counterObject='PhysicalDisk'  counter='Avg. Disk Write Queue Length'  counterInstance='_Total'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='800' thresholdDuration='30' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    </Counters>
    -<Services>
    </Services>
    -<Processes>
    </Processes>
    </MonitorSet>
    </monitor_set_definition>
    
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" ?>
    <monitor_set_definition version="1.0">
    -<MonitorSet name="IOPS per Disk (Customer X SQL Cluster)" description='Disk IOPS'>
    -<Counters>
    <Counter name='Disk Reads C:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Reads/sec'  counterInstance='C:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Writes C:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Writes/sec'  counterInstance='C:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Reads D:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Reads/sec'  counterInstance='D:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Writes D:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Writes/sec'  counterInstance='D:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Reads E:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Reads/sec'  counterInstance='E:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Writes E:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Writes/sec'  counterInstance='E:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Reads F:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Reads/sec'  counterInstance='F:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Writes F:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Writes/sec'  counterInstance='F:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Reads J:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Reads/sec'  counterInstance='J:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Writes J:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Writes/sec'  counterInstance='J:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Reads L:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Reads/sec'  counterInstance='L:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Writes L:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Writes/sec'  counterInstance='L:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Reads M:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Reads/sec'  counterInstance='M:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Writes M:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Writes/sec'  counterInstance='M:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Reads Q:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Reads/sec'  counterInstance='Q:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Writes Q:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Writes/sec'  counterInstance='Q:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Reads W:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Reads/sec'  counterInstance='W:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    <Counter name='Disk Writes W:'  description='null' counterObject='LogicalDisk'  counter='Disk Writes/sec'  counterInstance='W:'  counterSampleInterval='60' collectionOperator='Over'  collectionThreshold='0' trendTimeSpan='1209600' trendReArm='3600' thresholdOperator='Over'  thresholdAmount='200' thresholdDuration='25' thresholdWarning='10' thresholdReArm='3600'/>
    </Counters>
    -<Services>
    </Services>
    -<Processes>
    </Processes>
    </MonitorSet>
    </monitor_set_definition>
    
    Andrew - Sweet as.

    Legacy Forum Name: Monitor Sets,
    Legacy Posted By Username: sam.taylor



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 5:26 PM (GMT -8) on 12-20-2010] .
  • @sam.taylor

    Good form sir!



    I think, that your first paragraph sums it up nicely and I agree whole heartedly...



    Something that I've never gotten is how people grind at the lack of flexability, then when they get a lot of it, they grind at how it's not exactly what they wanted.

    related post



    I'm not sure if that is what the original poster meant though, I think that he wanted more out of the box solutions...



    IMO, if everything worked perfectly out of the box... I'd be out of a job =\ or have way less work to do



    P.S. as for the NIC yes you have to individualize a monitor set for every NIC then choose (more like guess) which one it is in the pull down list because Kaseya does not know what adapter you want to monitor. I find it a pain in the back side too...



    The only way around this is a redesign of the way that monitor set is done. to choose the machine first then it will cut down the need to rifle through all those adapters... But I can totally hear the complaints about that too...



    IMO we only see one way to do monitor sets for the sake of consistency.



    Edit: I Too have added some of our base monitors









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    Legacy Forum Name: Monitor Sets,
    Legacy Posted By Username: thirteentwenty
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  • Ken Wallewein


    1. these are pretty basic and important things that just about everybody would want to monitor
    2. we all seem to agree that Kaseya doesn't do them very well, especially "out of the box"
    3. there's nothing stopping Kaseya from addressing that if they chose to do so -- others have.


    The items I listed are all technically do-able -- granted, some more easily than others -- by someone who chooses to make the effort.


    It's a question of what things Kaseya should be working on first, instead of what it is possible for them to work on.

    I'd much rather have a kick-ass automation tool than something which offers improved monitoring. I know the benefits of automation, whereas I'm not sold on the benefits of monitoring.

    Andrew

    Legacy Forum Name: Monitor Sets,
    Legacy Posted By Username: andrew.doull@computer-care.com.au
  • [QUOTE=andrew.doull@computer-care.com.au;49184]I'd much rather have a kick-ass automation tool than something which offers improved monitoring. I know the benefits of automation, whereas I'm not sold on the benefits of monitoring.

    Andrew[/QUOTE]

    That absolutely valid as a preference. I'm very interested in why you're not sold on the benefits of monitoring. Would you mind elaborating on that a little, please?

    /kenw

    Legacy Forum Name: Monitor Sets,
    Legacy Posted By Username: Ken Wallewein
  • I think monitoring and automation are intimately related. Good monitoring could lead to a script running (that's automation) to solve a detected problem. I am surprised that you do not see just how important monitoring is in a package like Kaseya...

    [QUOTE=andrew.doull@computer-care.com.au;49184]It's a question of what things Kaseya should be working on first, instead of what it is possible for them to work on.

    I'd much rather have a kick-ass automation tool than something which offers improved monitoring. I know the benefits of automation, whereas I'm not sold on the benefits of monitoring.

    Andrew[/QUOTE]

    Legacy Forum Name: Monitor Sets,
    Legacy Posted By Username: ReedMikel
  • [QUOTE=andrew.doull@computer-care.com.au;48977]Except it doesn't use WMI for monitoring.
    Andrew[/QUOTE]

    Have to admit I'm a little confused here about the difference between WMI and what Kaseya actually does use, but here's something interesting:

    I've been bitching in this thread about how Kaseya doesn't do a credible job of collecting basic important info like RAM (as opposed to virtual memory)utilization, network utilization and such.

    A couple of days ago I tried pointing my PRTG server at a couple of HP host servers, and set it for basic Windows monitoring via WMI. One check box. Lo, my eyes were opened -- wide. I have a selection of useful utilization parameters graphed, including memory utilization that actually matches what Task Manager says, and network bandwidth for two interfaces. And I didn't even have to specify the NICs!

    Why's it all so hard in Kaseya? I just don't get it...

    /kenw

    Legacy Forum Name: Monitor Sets,
    Legacy Posted By Username: Ken Wallewein