Kaseya Community

Call for Kaseya to shift development focus...fix the core modules not add more modules

  • All,

    I'm glad I have Kaseya, it has saved me a one man IT department countless amount of time but I see that it has more potential that isn't being realized.

    It seems like Kaseya is more and more interested in creating new modules (income streams in some cases) and it seems like it's hampering their ability to work on their existing core modules.  KAV

    Modules added in 2011 (by my estimate which will contain some mistakes)

    KAM (12/31/10...essentially 2011) no experience with it
    KAV (12/20/10) unfinished product while essentially giving up on KES
    KDPM...unpolished but I hear 3.5 has some promise
    KDM don't think many people use it
    KDS unfinished
    KID there is 12 posts in that forum...I don't think it's really being used by many people.

    I could keep on going but you get the point.  It seems like they are more focused on adding new modules that don't really seem to be wanted or wind up being widely used.

     



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:09 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • After almost a year we are still missing any kind of alerting feature for virus detected etc from KAV.  KES's core engine is a couple years old.  Labtech is now offering to cover our costs of moving away from Kaseya.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:11 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • I completely agree. I've been working with support to try and get KAV 1.2 somewhat stable for a few weeks now. I think we're finally getting there, but it's such a waste of time and pisses our clients off.

    I installed the new Policy Management module, and really want to start using it in production, however it seems extremely buggy and I feel I don't want to waste my time until I know policies will actually apply correctly based on how I configure it. The desktop migration module was also painful at best to use, my techs tried it multiple times and at this point we've pretty much given up on it, even after spending $2,500 on licensing.

    I really want to stay with Kaseya at this point due to the time, effort, and cost of migrating to a new solution, but the quality of the software being put out really needs to improve.

    kuuser, I've looked at Labtech many times over the last few years, but just keep in mind that every piece of software has it's quirks, and we've recently heard from other companies we stay in touch with that are migrating to Labtech that they are running into some major pain points with that software.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:11 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • I strongly agree with this title post, we pay allot for our maintenance costs yet what have we got to show for it, a KPM module, we had to complain for, a service desk module which is so slow and non-useable, LC which none of our engineers use due to errors and speed issues, whilst there is allot of cool and really useful features in LC, the bottom line is it is supposed to make our engineers jobs quicker, but it's slower for remote control then the original KVNC and it crashes quite often so less stable. I'm still on 6.1 as I like to stay 6-9 months behind Kaseya core releases to save wasted time on bugs and issues.

    I really wish they would just release 3 modules a year but get them in a position where they are useable, e.g. no bugs, all required core features (nothing cut from release at last minute), and fully developed so I can then invest my money in them and can actually gain a benefit for my investment. At the moment I'm just reading on these forums on a daily basis with the hope some of these products get to version 1.3 quickly or higher so I can decide if they are ready for my investment.

    Sorry to sound harsh, I am still glad I signed up to use Kaseya 6 years ago and I'm not looking at moving to another provider, but I really wish they would sort things out but I believe bad decisions have been made higher up over the last two years and they have took on more than they can deliver with a new module coming out nearly every month. It looks good for marketing on the website which every module under the sun but what’s the point if nobody actually invests their hard earner money in them.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:12 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • It would seem to me they have the marketing guys telling the programs that we must be first to market with everything, so they push everything out before it is ready, stable and functionally useful.  And then I have to wonder who is doing the market research becuause some of the modules will never make a return on investment!

    For most MSP's, a good AV solution is a must, yet they brought out KAV without server support, poor deployment tools, and no alerting, this pretty much makes it useless and means you need a seperate AV for the server.  We recently took over a client from another MSP using kaseya and they had switched the client from Trend Micro WFBS to KAV/KES/KAM and this was one of the causes of them losing that client!  They have requested that we re-instate Trend Micro.

    I would like to use KAV once it is bug free and functional rich, but I also fear that if I will end up with an outdated product, just like KES and Backup



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:12 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • +1000 to this thread. Kaseya has become bloated, buggy, slow and is starting to lack some serious features that other products now have (and the company is a pain to deal with). We will probably keep Kaseya until our subscription finishes, then we will see what happens....



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:56 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • Glad someone got round to writing this up, it's something that's been on my mind for a while.

    Everytime I see an announcement from Kaseya that there is a new module coming the curious nerdy side of my head thinks - yee haa something new to install and play with, the slightly more cautious side tells me not to install it as there may be trouble ahead.  Unfortunately the latter is mostly true.  Of all the new modules KDS is the only one we are actively using and it needs a lot of work.  

    Now take a look through the core modules - why oh why can't we have a common interface?  In audit I can click a cross to change views in Agent I can't.  K2 is by no means new so why haven't these issues been ironed out yet?

    Live Connect is a fantastic looking tool but in a busy working helpdesk environment it's simply far too slow to be useful.  Our guys have far too many calls on the go to wait until connections are made and because of this remote control is used to connect to customer machines.  This makes me angry at times as there's things the guys could do but I totally understand why they aren't using it.

    I agree with Eddy that it looks like the marketing guys have a bigger say on what's released and when because I really don't think the developers would have rubber stamped some of what's come out.  Or are Kaseya's testing environments unrealistic?



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:57 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • Thank you for this post, I feel less alone

    A product such as Kaseya must be stable before all things. The purpose of this product is optimized operational tasks.

    Currently, my teams do not trust a Kaseya.

    - Problem bug

    - Stability

    - Design Problem

    And the same answer in the future module fee.

    I feel myself much wrong but one thing is on my time savings are lost in the incident management Kaseya and impact to my clients.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:57 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • good morning guys,

    Here's my opinion on this topic:

    1. 3 years ago: I really liked how developed the core module was, and the direction K was plodding along with it. However, it did seem they were getting bogged down with being able to give us meaningful upgrades.
    2. 2 years ago: I got excited when Kaseya told us that 6.x would be an entire rewrite of the base code so they could being a new launching point for their product (clean out the years of garbage code, insert new cleaner code and language, and really move thing forward). Though the release of 6.0 blew up a lot of people (and needed a lot of fixing), I put my faith into K and waited to see what next (their track history was god, so I figured once they got done ripping of the band-aid all would move forward again). We could see the potential here with the new interface, and the promise of LC.
    3. 1 year ago: I got real excited with Kaseya's announcement that there were several new major features (mostly new modules) that would be coming out soon (now andwithin the next year). OF course in most cases, pricing wasn't really discussed (will we be charge, won't we?), but it look to me like the promise made 2 years ago would come to fruition (the core module would be push forward again!). Also, now that 6.1 was out, and all seemed stable, the core module was working as good (if not slightly better) that 5.1 version... and it had a few extras that 5.1 didn't have (like quick menu, LC functionality, a better UI).
    4. The past K user summit May of this year till now: I am confused... On the suface, it looks like the core module isn't being pushed further. However:
      1. LC has a lot of potential, and is in the core
      2. Advanced Network Discovery was just added to the core  (after it was announced that it would have a big add-on price)
      3. KPM was added to the core (after it was announced that it would have an add-on price).
      4. A few other add-ons were offered to us as add-on maint cost only.
      5. Lots of new add-ons added. However, since KAV/KAM (and this includes KAV/KAM too!) almost all of these new add-ons are not feature rich enough to warrant an investment. We call them Almost 1.0 products.

    So after thinking these things out, the core module looks like its being developed as I would want, but because of the wishy-washy way K handled the new features to the core (this is not meant to sound harsh, just trying to pinpoint the feeling) I got the impression that K was looking to leverage their new development as new revenue from existing clients instead of making the core product more feature rich (especially the Enterprise product). However, I am concerned with the way they first tried to bill (in some way) for these core feature builders. I really hope this doesn't become a recoccuring problem with K.

    I would like to see Kaseya put out a better roadmap that would focus on what's being developed in the core, and what add-ons are being developed as well. Because my final opinion of all of this (and the most common problem I see K having) is a lack of clear communication between them and their clients. In the end, I find it to be wishy-washy most of the time, so expectations become improperly set among us. Then when a new addition comes out (or a module gets upgraded), our first thought now is "I wonder what Kaseya will ask us to pay for this???". This is not a good feeling since I recently wrote a check for yearly maint on 5000 agents (its a biiiig check).

     



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:57 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • I agree with most of the sentiments raised so far and have also voiced my concerns several times past when new modules where announced that there are more important core features that needs to be improved to keep up with Kaseya's competitors.  

    As for KID, to put it in the nicest way possible it should not have been released yet and it has a long way to go before it will be ready from what I have seen of it.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:57 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • This is an excellent thread, though I hope it won't be perceived as "yet more forum whinging" by the Kaseya management.

    I really feel that the issue is a lack of communication. This goes both ways.

    I attended Kaseya Connect for the first time this year, and was extremely encouraged by the open mic forum, in which several of us were able to share our views directly with the Kaseya High Priests. I was the annoying New Zealand accented guy asking Kaseya to please stop pushing Service Desk and focus instead on... you guessed it... fixing the core in line with user requests repeated over and over again.

    I came away from that forum a little conflicted. On the one hand, I felt some of us had been listened to. On the other hand, it seemed there was quite a bit of defensiveness in the responses, and a lack of actual listening and comprehension of our problems. I remember thinking at the time "this is going to come to a head at some point". This thread might be that point.

    To make me happy as a customer would require three things.

    1. Kaseya to understand that solving a problem via an extremely convoluted method is only slightly better than not solving it at all (just read many of these forum threads for examples of things which should "just work" but instead require multiple interacting scripts, direct DB manipulation, and outright bypassing of the core product itself).

    2. As others have said, showstopping bugs in releases (core or modules) are just not good enough. The classic examples here are KPM breaking horribly the first few months it was out, and KAM which seems all but orphaned, and causes many performance issues on endpoints, and has no global exclusion list or ability to spread updates across a time window.

    3. Fixing the UI to present a consistent experience across all modules. I wouldn't mind this, except it is laughable when the actual experience is described by Kaseya as a "single pane of glass" solution. If so, I suspect that single pane would only be sold by a glazier who had taken some serious psychedelics! :)

    In short, and I've said this here before, what I really want is for Kaseya to connect their marketing message (Our Automation. Your Liberation.) with their development process, which seems to leave our users with anything but automation and feeling extremely unliberated.

    Guys at Kaseya, I love your potential. I love the "can do" attitude at Kaseya Connect. I love the tireless devotion of people like Brendon Cosgrove who show day after day that they genuinely care about we users. I love support, who have been great when I've had a problem specific and reproducible enough for it to be worth raising a ticket. All I want is for the marketing department to slow down, take a breath, and maybe move to a model where their salaries are authorised by the Quality Control and Support departments...

    Please guys, connect with reality (it's all here on this forum) and maybe let us in on why things are so disconnected, and when/how they'll be fixed. Fellow posters... I don't see the point in waving threats of moving to Labtech or similar. Let's just do what we can to help Kaseya help us.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:58 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • Great thread.

    I've never used an enterprise product with such a fast and fluid development cycle.  The whole dev process just seems like it flies by the seat of its pants.  The other product I use (CRM, accounting, PSA) have controlled releases - quarterly, annually, etc.  It is incredibly rare for an out-of-band release to come out.  Even Microsoft has figured out how to to regular cyclical updates to its products.  

    In my former life I was a software engineer at Symantec for 6 years and aside from the antivirus engines, once a product was shipped, we froze the code-base and touched it as little as possible until the next iterative release.  After code freeze, applications would go through weeks, if not months, of rigorous testing before release.  Only show-stopping bugs get fixed - no new features period.  No last minutes changes, no off-the-cuff updates because users x,y,z asked for them.

    All this is to say that when I first bought Kaseya and learned about the 'maintenance' fees, I was expecting a similar process. I would have never dreamed that we'd be essentially running my business on a product that had silent, behind the scenes updates multiple times per day/week/month.  No apparent scheduled releases, no announcements of upcoming fixes, no real visibility to what's going on under the covers.  All of this leads me to a lack of confidence in the code base - how can we ever feel comfortable or have faith in the product with this type of system?

    With the speed of hotfixes, I just cannot believe that things get properly tested.  When new modules are released, they always undergo weeks of frantic bug fixes.  This is despite Kaseya's insistence that they did extensive alpha/beta testing in live customer environments.  The response to our (the community) complaints and criticisms of flaky modules and long-lingering bugs in the core feel defensive.  We get a lot of the same type of responses - we did a lot of testing, we didn't see these issues during testing, etc, etc.  In my opinion, the entire development/QA/release system is generally substandard.  Yes, things have improved a little in the recent core releases, but there are still way too many glaring bugs and problems when new code is released.  We (along with many others) take a wait and see approach because we've been burned before by being an early adopter.  I've always contended that software development is easy - it's the QA testing that is really hard to do right.

    As others have said, it would be really nice to stop with the marketing of new modules and spend some of our maintenance money on a long, solid cycle of core development/QA.  My two cents.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:58 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • Kaseya Management,

    There is some very good constructive criticism in this thread that even gives suggestions on what to do.  Care to comment and perhaps voice your opinions?  Communication needs to be a two way street and it wouldn't be fair to not hear your side of the story.

    Thanks,



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:58 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • Phlight,

    You are quite correct and from the day you first started this thread Kaseya Management has been watching and learning.  Many times when a Kaseyan jumps in on a thread like this it tends to interrupt the conversation, so we have very deliberately kept quiet.  This has been a fantastic thread with very valuable feedback presented in a constructive manner.  

    Our side of the story is a bit complex to quickly churn out, however, we will put together some thoughts for you shortly.  

    Thanks to you for starting this thread, and thanks to everyone who has participated.  Please don't let this stop your suggestions and feedback.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:59 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .
  • I would also add my name to the list of users who are less than thrilled with the current state of Kaseya core development. I would prefer some focus on making something brilliant before taking your finger and sticking it in 10 different pies.

    We started using KAV a few months ago in the hope that the server version would be just around the corner. Still waiting for that and now I am scratching my head wondering what to do with my servers. If I have to install a separate direct from Kaspersky version I might as well go the whole hog with their management tools. No point using Kaseya to manage a fractured environement.

    I looked at the service desk module recently as I saw there was a Kaseya app for the  iPhone. Did an install of the trial and then I saw the quote for installing it and the mandatory day or two of configuration service that was required. I promptly uninstalled the trial from the server. Not being the milk in that cash cow sorry.



    [edited by: Brendan Cosgrove at 11:59 AM (GMT -8) on 2-20-2012] .